Maybe the world would be a better place if people like the author didn’t take advantage of others in ways they wouldn’t want their children taken advantage of.
I don’t know, I very much like that ~.news is not as tightly wound as lobste.rs. I think tilde people have a lot of eclectic interests, and I like seeing some of the non-technical articles that get posted here.
There may be room for pruning some redundant tags, and perhaps splitting some tags into more specific tags, but that’s not really for me to say.
As a final thought: Tighter moderation should really only be a response to abuse, not as a way to attract readers.
She’s right, you know. But I think a better way to put this is to not learn a specific technology, but learn how the technology works. Learn the fundamentals, and when the landscape shifts, you may have a bit of catching up to do, but you won’t be starting from scratch. You’ll understand some of the decisions that were made in the design of technology Y, and if you’re early enough in the process, you might even be able to shape it to fix some of the pain points you’ve felt.
This applies if you’re a programmer: Learn programming, not javascript; if you’re a system administrator: Learn how computers work, not Windows; if you’re a network admin: learn networking, not Cisco; etc, etc.
Yes, I agree, understand things conceptually. Then all that’s left is to deal with people hiring that do not understand concepts and are wondering why you are not explicitly stating something, to which you counter by casually sprinkling words on resume :(
One thing I fail to understand is why every single javascript framework insists on reinventing HTTP servers. It makes it impossible to run multiple services on the same host without a reverse proxy, and makes knowing how to install certificates no longer a general practice that is the same across servers, instead being some arcane knowledge that depends on the framework being used, and for what? Slightly faster response times?
Maybe web developers should just optimize their code. Or get other jobs because I am fully of the opinion that 90% or more of web developers have no clue what they’re doing.
Solene is such a cool person, I love this idea, and if I saw it in time, I’d definitely be participating! Heck, I already use an old Thinkpad T420 (not quite the OCC candidate, but old anyway) as a usual computer.
I love email. It’s so weird and ancient. It’s like peeling back time and going back to the 70s, even more that using all the “old” services we play with on the tildes.
I agree with you. Plan 9 is a popular topic around here, so it should have its own tag.
On the topic of other improvements, maybe we should have some guidelines about putting the length of videos in the title, just as we do with the year of old content? I was interested in this video, but not “Watch an hour and 17 minute long video” interested–right now at least.
But on the other hand, I watched this last year and it’s totally worth it.
I get it, acme isn’t really doing all these things. Arguably, the only thing acme really does is give you an interface for interacting with text, and since everything in Plan 9 is text, it becomes a powerful tool.
If you can get it, yes absolutely. Having email on it is even better. firstname@lastname.com is the dopest power move, and it makes me wish my last name wasn’t a highly sought after domain name already.
This is a third party vendor trying to show their worth but clearly has no idea what they’re doing. Adobe probably pays Incopro an ungodly amount of money.
Seems to me it’s a bot scanning for the keywords “download Adobe”. I wouldn’t say they have no idea what they’re doing, they just don’t care enough to make the process less harassing. I mean, why would they?
I have a friend who uses Matrix, and his main complaint is that he doesn’t know anyone, besides me, who would be willing to move away from Discord. IMO it’s not about getting everyone to move away right now, it’s about having Matrix (or XMPP or whatever!) ready on the side, for when the next major disruption to Discord happens. I feel like if more Matrix enthusiasts had been in the wsb discord guild, this could have been the start of a mass migration!
The key takeaway here is to pick an open chat solution. Set up an account, and talk about it once in a while. You’ll find some friends willing to try it with you, and strike when Discord pulls something like this!
And hey, the best part about these open protocols is that it really don’t matter if you choose Matrix or XMPP, because although they’re not interoperable, there exist bridges and means of communicating with people on the other protocol. It’s not as deadly a lock-in as Discord or Skype or Teams. And I’d bet that if XMPP really took off, Matrix would evolve to be more compatibile, and vice versa.
See also: People leaving Gmail for Fastmail/Protonmail. As soon as a platform feels like it’s big enough to keep making money while being scummy, they’ll start being scummy.
Interesting take. I feel the complete opposite, though (With some intense caveats so bear with me here).
While XMPP is definitely more mature, it was more interesting 20 years ago when text chat was king, and voice and video chat was just a novelty. The problem with comparing Matrix and XMPP is that, while on the surface, they seem like competitors, being federated messaging standards, XMPP is first and foremost an instant messaging protocol. Rooms feel added on after, and where voice chat exists, it’s a complete afterthought. Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. The extreme intercompatibility of XMPP is a great feature, but you can never, ever know if your correspondents can utilize voice chat unless you ask them[1].
In Matrix, however, rooms and VoIP are first-class citizens. I don’t know if I can say “from the very beginning”, but it sure seems like Matrix, and especially Element were made, from the beginning, with VoIP in mind. While the monopoly of the Element/Synapse ecosystem is problematic, it’s helpful to just be able to assume a person you’re talking to will be able to utilize all the same features you are. Even under the best circumstance, I don’t think you even get close to that in XMPP.
For years, I was rooting for XMPP, it’s got everything I want in a text chat, but if I want to convince my friends to use something other than Discord or Whatsapp, it needs the features that people want[2] from those apps. XMPP is great, but Matrix is solving a different problem. A problem that XMPP can solve, but only if you’re willing to put in the work.
[1] Maybe some XMPP clients have a way of notifying the user of VoIP capability, I’m sure it exists, but I haven’t seen it.
[2] Not to mention end-to-end encryption, which I know is possible in XMPP, but as an afterthought. It’s not a selling point if I have to walk a non-technical user through turning it on, and they have to remember to do it for each chat.
Edit: Final thoughts: If you can show me an out-of-the-box XMPP solution like Synapse/Element that I can launch in a day, and get my Discord friends on, I’ll gladly set it up and try it out!
1: xmpp has come a long way. rooms and video/audio calling work seamlessly even with my parents who are non-technical. (can’t really speak for the state of apps on ios/mac since we don’t have any of those, but some new updates for siskin and monal are said to have some major improvements)
2: e2e encryption via omemo is also enabled by default and works great for 1:1 chats and private groups.
additionally there are now some services that are great for easy onboarding like snikket for running your own server and quicksy for getting users onboarded with a familiar phone number flow (they get an address in the form +@quicksy.im).
The man page is excellent. The UX is terrible. Still, it’s a mind-blowing concept.
I think that really sums up Plan 9 nicely. Every time I try out Plan 9 or read something like this, I’m beyond amazed at the ideas present here, and I wonder why we’re doing everything the hard way. But I can never bring myself to use it for more than a few hours because the UI is just so dang opinionated.
Maybe the world would be a better place if people like the author didn’t take advantage of others in ways they wouldn’t want their children taken advantage of.
I had a similar idea a while ago. I’ve got it setup on tilde.town http://tilde.town/~malvarma/tilde-art-exchange/index.html
This is a much nicer implementation though.
I do like this one too!
That actually made me laugh out loud. Nice work.
I don’t know, I very much like that ~.news is not as tightly wound as lobste.rs. I think tilde people have a lot of eclectic interests, and I like seeing some of the non-technical articles that get posted here.
There may be room for pruning some redundant tags, and perhaps splitting some tags into more specific tags, but that’s not really for me to say.
As a final thought: Tighter moderation should really only be a response to abuse, not as a way to attract readers.
Your position makes sense. That’s exactly why I’m asking.
That just seems like gopher with more steps.
I’m sure there are reasons this would be useful, I’m just failing to see them. What problem does this solve?
I can’t immediately come up with a reason, but I’m sure there’s one … somewhere haha.
She’s right, you know. But I think a better way to put this is to not learn a specific technology, but learn how the technology works. Learn the fundamentals, and when the landscape shifts, you may have a bit of catching up to do, but you won’t be starting from scratch. You’ll understand some of the decisions that were made in the design of technology Y, and if you’re early enough in the process, you might even be able to shape it to fix some of the pain points you’ve felt.
This applies if you’re a programmer: Learn programming, not javascript; if you’re a system administrator: Learn how computers work, not Windows; if you’re a network admin: learn networking, not Cisco; etc, etc.
Yes, I agree, understand things conceptually. Then all that’s left is to deal with people hiring that do not understand concepts and are wondering why you are not explicitly stating something, to which you counter by casually sprinkling words on resume :(
One thing I fail to understand is why every single javascript framework insists on reinventing HTTP servers. It makes it impossible to run multiple services on the same host without a reverse proxy, and makes knowing how to install certificates no longer a general practice that is the same across servers, instead being some arcane knowledge that depends on the framework being used, and for what? Slightly faster response times?
Maybe web developers should just optimize their code. Or get other jobs because I am fully of the opinion that 90% or more of web developers have no clue what they’re doing.
TLDR: you suddenly need to delete it because it’s the same as it has ever been.
I imagine the majority of Tildos don’t need to delete Chrome because, if we even have it installed, it’s only to test compatibility.
Solene is such a cool person, I love this idea, and if I saw it in time, I’d definitely be participating! Heck, I already use an old Thinkpad T420 (not quite the OCC candidate, but old anyway) as a usual computer.
I love email. It’s so weird and ancient. It’s like peeling back time and going back to the 70s, even more that using all the “old” services we play with on the tildes.
We need a general osdev tag or a plan9 specific one. I lumped it under UNIX as I couldn’t find anything relevant.
I agree with you. Plan 9 is a popular topic around here, so it should have its own tag.
On the topic of other improvements, maybe we should have some guidelines about putting the length of videos in the title, just as we do with the year of old content? I was interested in this video, but not “Watch an hour and 17 minute long video” interested–right now at least.
But on the other hand, I watched this last year and it’s totally worth it.
:D
Currently reading through this, and enjoying it. I just thought I’d like to comment on these two lines before I forget:
This is useful for acme
I get it, acme isn’t really doing all these things. Arguably, the only thing acme really does is give you an interface for interacting with text, and since everything in Plan 9 is text, it becomes a powerful tool.
But it’s still a funny juxtaposition to me.
If the title of an article is a question, the answer is “No.”
If you can get it, yes absolutely. Having email on it is even better. firstname@lastname.com is the dopest power move, and it makes me wish my last name wasn’t a highly sought after domain name already.
This is a third party vendor trying to show their worth but clearly has no idea what they’re doing. Adobe probably pays Incopro an ungodly amount of money.
Seems to me it’s a bot scanning for the keywords “download Adobe”. I wouldn’t say they have no idea what they’re doing, they just don’t care enough to make the process less harassing. I mean, why would they?
I have a friend who uses Matrix, and his main complaint is that he doesn’t know anyone, besides me, who would be willing to move away from Discord. IMO it’s not about getting everyone to move away right now, it’s about having Matrix (or XMPP or whatever!) ready on the side, for when the next major disruption to Discord happens. I feel like if more Matrix enthusiasts had been in the wsb discord guild, this could have been the start of a mass migration!
The key takeaway here is to pick an open chat solution. Set up an account, and talk about it once in a while. You’ll find some friends willing to try it with you, and strike when Discord pulls something like this!
And hey, the best part about these open protocols is that it really don’t matter if you choose Matrix or XMPP, because although they’re not interoperable, there exist bridges and means of communicating with people on the other protocol. It’s not as deadly a lock-in as Discord or Skype or Teams. And I’d bet that if XMPP really took off, Matrix would evolve to be more compatibile, and vice versa.
See also: People leaving Gmail for Fastmail/Protonmail. As soon as a platform feels like it’s big enough to keep making money while being scummy, they’ll start being scummy.
compare xmpp. matrix is still mostly unusable in its current state.
I found the example very interesting, especially if you can try it for free however it’s quite memory hungry.
Interesting take. I feel the complete opposite, though (With some intense caveats so bear with me here).
While XMPP is definitely more mature, it was more interesting 20 years ago when text chat was king, and voice and video chat was just a novelty. The problem with comparing Matrix and XMPP is that, while on the surface, they seem like competitors, being federated messaging standards, XMPP is first and foremost an instant messaging protocol. Rooms feel added on after, and where voice chat exists, it’s a complete afterthought. Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. The extreme intercompatibility of XMPP is a great feature, but you can never, ever know if your correspondents can utilize voice chat unless you ask them[1].
In Matrix, however, rooms and VoIP are first-class citizens. I don’t know if I can say “from the very beginning”, but it sure seems like Matrix, and especially Element were made, from the beginning, with VoIP in mind. While the monopoly of the Element/Synapse ecosystem is problematic, it’s helpful to just be able to assume a person you’re talking to will be able to utilize all the same features you are. Even under the best circumstance, I don’t think you even get close to that in XMPP.
For years, I was rooting for XMPP, it’s got everything I want in a text chat, but if I want to convince my friends to use something other than Discord or Whatsapp, it needs the features that people want[2] from those apps. XMPP is great, but Matrix is solving a different problem. A problem that XMPP can solve, but only if you’re willing to put in the work.
[1] Maybe some XMPP clients have a way of notifying the user of VoIP capability, I’m sure it exists, but I haven’t seen it.
[2] Not to mention end-to-end encryption, which I know is possible in XMPP, but as an afterthought. It’s not a selling point if I have to walk a non-technical user through turning it on, and they have to remember to do it for each chat.
Edit: Final thoughts: If you can show me an out-of-the-box XMPP solution like Synapse/Element that I can launch in a day, and get my Discord friends on, I’ll gladly set it up and try it out!
1: xmpp has come a long way. rooms and video/audio calling work seamlessly even with my parents who are non-technical. (can’t really speak for the state of apps on ios/mac since we don’t have any of those, but some new updates for siskin and monal are said to have some major improvements)
2: e2e encryption via omemo is also enabled by default and works great for 1:1 chats and private groups.
additionally there are now some services that are great for easy onboarding like snikket for running your own server and quicksy for getting users onboarded with a familiar phone number flow (they get an address in the form +@quicksy.im).
Thank you! What app do you and your parents use?
we use conversations. it’s really lovely and can replace any mainstream chat app.
I run two ejabberd servers, hmm.st for friends and family and one for tilde.team that’s hooked up to shell authentication.
I think that really sums up Plan 9 nicely. Every time I try out Plan 9 or read something like this, I’m beyond amazed at the ideas present here, and I wonder why we’re doing everything the hard way. But I can never bring myself to use it for more than a few hours because the UI is just so dang opinionated.
The article was interesting, but I found much more interesting the talk linked from it: https://youtu.be/6m3GuoaxRNM